The Electra Forums

(sorry for the book!)

1. Besides playing it every chance I get, I gotta get around to finally have some work done on it. It's very noisy most likely due to the person that owned the guitar before me. He switched out one of the humbuckers and it might not be wired right. That I can definitely work on.

2. There's a couple questions I have though. One of the tuners has a tiny piece of plastic ring broken. The tuner spins real fast and easy, but I'm lucky that it stays in place and holds tune. It'll prolly be impossible to find replacement Electra branded tuners, so I'm going to get Grover or Spertzels.

Once I do that, I might see if anyone here might want them (for free). I DO, however, need to know what the size the holes are so I can buy replacements that'll properly fit.

3. Lastly, it needs a refinish. Normally I'm okay with dings and scratches, but on the very top of the headstock, it's bare (paint worn off too) and the wood looks like the more it ages, the more brittle that wood will become

I don't know the different types of materials used to finish guitars today, if there are multiple, but I'm going out on a limb in saying that guitars these days aren't finished like they used to be (mine's dated possibly Jan 1980). I remember reading that Gibsons used to be finished with a material that's no longer legally allowed to be used (nitrocellulose lacquer). Was my x260 originally finished with nitro, polyurethane clear, or something else? Naturally I'll see if I can find a luthier, but I need to know what to ask of them.

Thanks in advance!!

_________________
Peavey 5150 w/Bias mod
Custom 4x12 birch cab w/Celestion G12T-75's
Ibanez TS808 OD w/Monte Allums mod
ISP Decimator
Electra X260 Invicta
Ibanez RG320DXQM

Well, first of all, I urge you to try drop-filling rather than refinishing. I guarantee that even a sloppy patch job will be give better results than the massive prospect of stripping and refinishing.

You're right, guitar finishes have changed. Basically electric guitars have always used auto paint, and in the 50's this meant nitrocellulose lacquer. By the 60's automaker had all switched to urethane enamel, which they still use today. (some modern finishes also include some urethanes which are two-stage, with a hardener like epoxy, but that's not commonly used on guitars as it's overkill and very toxic to work with).

The classic Fenders and Gibsons of the 50's used nitro, and nitro is also favored for handmade instruments, mainly because it's so much thinner- like 20 times thinner than equivalent coats of urethane. People say it's mor resonant, but mainly it's the thinness that matters.

Nitro is also very fragile. You can scratch right through it with a hard object, and it tends to wear with use- another reason people like it in the modern day, because they want to make relics that are full of dings and scratches and worn spots. You jsut can't get that effect with urethane unless you use a chisel, which is why so many modern 'relics' look so bad, they look like they've been vandalized, not worn.

By the late 60's and 70's, all guitar makers had switched to urethane (excepting the very few handbuilts, of course, and today a few guitars are still shot with nitro- Gibson is back into using it on many of theirs. BTW- the reason the 'faded series' by Gibson is so cheap is there's no final polishing done which dramatically lowers the cost. The faded Vee is a loss leader, sold for less than cost, and I encourage everyone to pick one up who likes Vees- they're identical to the regular Vee costing 2-3 times the price) Anyway, all Electras I've ever seen were made with urethane finishes, not nitro lacquer. You can test by putting a drop of lacquer thinner (nail polish solvent) on a hidden spot and see if it dissolves the finish.

It is very, very difficult to remove a urethane enamel finish. Most modern refinishers recommedn that you not try- better to either paint over the finish or to start with a new unpainted body.

WHat it takes to remove urethane is a combination of paint remover (only jasco brand aircraft stripper works, you need to use the fumes of it by applying it and wrapping the body in a plasitc bag for a week. Then you get a goopy mess, and the wood is stained.) OR you can try using a heat gun (wear goggles because sharp flakes of paint will go flying as they come off) but then it's very hard to avoid scorching the wood. Or you can use a chisel and butcher the dang thing, as I have done on occasion. SOmetimes people take a belt sander and coarse sandpaper and remove the top layer of wood and the finish with it- I have a Dynasty that was professionally stripped that way (not by me).

IF you choose to go this route, I beg you, please don't learn it on a good guitar. Don't use your Electra as the first patient. Buy a $100 Squier from musiciansfriend, and learn on that.

Also, some things you need to know about wrkign with nitro- it is very toxic. If you can smell it, you've already gotten brain damage. You must work with respirators all the time, and work in a well-ventilated area where you won't poison someone else. (it's way bad stuff for people who have existing health problems, or are old).

Having said that, nitro is fun to work with, and you can get great quality nitro in spray cans from www.reranch.com for about $20/can. They also have an excellent forum and lots of help and encouragement from the guitar refinishing community. Nitro is restricted in how it can be transported, but in spray cans it's safe. (I'd hate to be a company paying employees to spray nitro though, too risky for their health)

(If you do decide you want to refinish guitars, I recommend starting with something that's already stripped or never been finished- I have a stripped Westbury guitar here that will need refinishing someday, talk to me before you consider doing in your Electra)

As far as tuners- can you post pics? Several of us have guitars with one original tuner missing, so only one of us need sacrifice our tuners for the rest- there are a couple styles so let's have a look at what you need. I have a few spares, there may be a chance.

Do a search for 'telerez' and 'CS-400' and you'll see a couple examples of refinishing and finish repair projects. I didn't get into detail here about drop filling because it's pretty well described in that second thread, but check itout- essentially you first fix the color to make it match the surrounding areas, and then you use clear superglue which welds itself into the existing finish and can be levelled and polished for an invisible repair.

Repairs to the headstock are easy and can usually be done nearly invisibly by yourself. What is much much harder is repairing a chip in the neck finish- very hard to get smooth enough without ripping up more of the finish around it. I've done numerous repairs to chipped headstocks and feet of Electra guitars- if they're painted a solid color, you can use auto touchup paint, as Electras of the 80's were painted using Toyota colors. In your case, I would use furniture detailing pens to repair any discolored wood where the stain is missing, then use superglue to fill teh chips- or you can use lacquer for a large are and then go back with superglue to weld the two areas together. But this will be much much better than trying to strip the whole thing and refinish, although no doubt some luthiers would love you to pay them to do that.

Hey Sami! As per the tuners, I have exactly the same issue, but with several rather then one . Sperzel and Grover both get good reviews, but (as I'm sure you know) the Sperzels have a significantly wider shaft with often requires drilling out the pegholes. On the other hand, Grover *probably* has a model that will be an exact fit for your pre-existing holes as well as screw mounts. I mention this because I was doing a little shopping myself, and if you look around, you'll see that Grover has different mount versions for the same model often listed as the same thing by sellers that either don't notice or don't care. I was able to find a model (the 102g or 102c) which is a 2 minute install into my guitar. If you simply look at where the mount is located in the pictures of the item, I'd give it better then any casino odds that you'll have a no-mod install. Also, if you search a bit you can find them for around the same price, and Grovers have a more attractive gear ratio .

P.S. My tuners will be available for anyone who wants them, but be warned, they're nothing to write home about

Awesome guys!! Thanks for the spreading some of that golden knowledge!!

_________________
Peavey 5150 w/Bias mod
Custom 4x12 birch cab w/Celestion G12T-75's
Ibanez TS808 OD w/Monte Allums mod
ISP Decimator
Electra X260 Invicta
Ibanez RG320DXQM

Planet Waves AutoTrim locking tuners fit Electras perfectly and are excellent tuners in their own right. I have them all all of my players, Electras and Gibsons alike.

Highly recommended!

M