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Just drove 600 miles round trip to Detroit to pick up a '77 2281 Tree of Life 335 model. This is my latest ebay score after selling a non-serialized Jazz Strad with the open book headstock. Both guitars can still be viewed on ebay. under these numbers: 230196312033 is the Jazz Strad I just sold and: 290186169853 is the Elvin Bishop 2281 I just picked up.

There are several noticeable differences between the two models other than the obvious headstock shape. The pick-ups have the same numbering on their bottoms but used a different ink stamp font. The late es a smaller font. The 2281 is also noticeably heavier than the Jazz Strad. I should've weighed the Jazz Strad before selling but I'd guesstimate the weight difference to be at least 1.5-2 pounds. The detail work on the 2281 is also inferior to the Jazz Strad. Had I known going in I'd have kept the Jazz Strad.

The inlay work, nut, and binding on the later 2281 is not even close as far as quality concerns go. On the '77 2281 the fret board binding is a little uneven and the side dots are haphazardly aligned. The area around the nut is very poor in comparison. The 2281s brass nut hangs over the board on both sides by 1/8" and the binding that appeared seamless on the Jazz Strad shows definite seams on the 2281. That may be due to the tortoise binding not showing the seems as easily as the white binding but it doesn't account for the side dots on the 2281 being off. The inlay work on the 2281 is also lacking in comparison. The Jazz Strads Jet Wings were inlaid meticulously with no glue showing at the edges. The 2281s inlays show tons of glue. Granted the inlays on the 2281 are more difficult to do precisely but the lack of time spent on finishing the 2281 is obvious.

The detail and finish work on the Jazz Strad put Gibson's Norlin era 335s to shame. Whoever built the Jazz Strad was a master luthier and it showed. The 2281s detail/quality overall is short of a Norlin era 335. It appears to be pretty much the standard fare for a Japanese copy from this era as far as detail is concerned. Not great but passable and pretty close to the American guitars of the same era.

Maybe the Jazz Strad was an exceptional guitar built on the right day by the right person one and 2281 just an average one built on a not so great day by an average luthier. But that's kind of hard to accept. I can't really see the quality standards that were employed on the Jazz Strad used on the later 2281. My best guess is that the early Jazz Strad (and maybe other early models) were made to higher standards to win a contract to build more guitars. I was expecting the same quality from the 2281 and was let down immensely. The 2281 is a good guitar, just not a great one. For me the devil is in the details and whoever built the Jazz Strad knew this and took the time to get it right. It met the lofty standards of a custom built guitar. The 2281 on the other hand looks to meet the standards of a "production" guitar to a tee, no perfection just good enough.

Anyone else with any theories or experience with both models or like models from different eras please chime in. I never really bonded with the Jazz Strad as I'm none to fond of trapeze tail pieces. I much prefer the stop tail on the 2281. I just wish the maker would've employed the same quality control standards to both guitars. On a side note I also noticed the 2281 has a "Made in Germany" bridge. Probably a Schaller. It looks like all the others I've seen. Is this stock? My Jazz Strad had nothing but Made in Japan parts. The 2281 is also missing the chrome pup covers. Any one have a set of era correct chrome covers they'd wish to part with?

hmm...intersting comments... sorry to hear your eb isn't up to snuff... i have eb serial number B777300 and i don't have any of the issues you describe... the inlays on mine are super well done... and although they are more delicate and intricate than the inlays on either of my X810s, they are by far done to a higher standard...

another thing i note as being different, is that my eb has what is probably a plastic or composite or something nut (its white is what i am trying to say ), whereas you mention that yours is brass... i suspect that one of us has a guitar that has had the nut replaced.. and mine seems to be original down to the thin varnish covering on the outer edges... there is no overhang with mine

also, my binding is very smooth all around... so.. i think you might have a point about some inconsistancies in production... all in all... sorry to hear your purchase isn't what you had hoped it would be...

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I've seen the white bone/plastic nuts on the early models. The brass nuts I've seen have been on the later models. My Jazz Strad had the white nut (it had aged gracefully to an off white/tan) and that nut was perfectly cut and well placed in the nut slot. It was definitely an early model as it had the open book headstock. Your 2281 EB is a "B" '77 serial number which would place it as a February build in '77. Mine is a "J" '77 which would place it as an October '77 build. Obviously sometime in '77 they changed the specs. Take a close look at the 2281 on the bottom of the Electra Page. It's a '78 and you can clearly see the brass nut. Whatever running model/spec changes were made in '77 were not improvements IMO.

My brass nut is cut very poorly and will be removed post haste. I truly despise brass as a nut material and the Ivory that will replace it is in da' house. The brass nut is also cut at an angle at its base. I've never seen anything like this before. The base on a nut is usually square (at right angles to) its sides. This brass nut has an angled, not flat, base. It's a poor design, likely to make the binding work in that area clener/easier to apply. Looking at it in hand that' s the only reason I can see for the angled cut. The other issues I speak of are purely cosmetic in nature. It is as if the earlier Jazz Strad (and it sounds like your guitar also) had someone take the time and effort to get the detail processes like binding, inlays, frets (did I metion the fret work is not as cleanly done on this one?), and nut work completed in a top notch manner. This later version looks rushed or like many Aria Pro II LP copies Id say were "nicely done for the price." My Jazz Strad needed no such disclaimers, but the later 2281s fit and finish has "nice guitar for the money" written all over it. The Jazz Strad needed no excuses at any price. It was a great guitar, period. I'll snap some shots of the 2281's "issues" and post them along with the Jazz Strads pics. I think everyone will clearly see the differences.

hmm... i guess you are right about the changeover to brass nuts... i have copies of auctions of several eb's that have sold on ebay over the years... and you are right... later 77s and on seem to be equipped with brass nuts and the earlier ones with... well ...you know... the white ones

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Live Better Electra-ly
http://www.therathole.org/leia/visitors_axes/leia/leia.html

I planned on changing out the nut and putting the pup covers back on anyway. I purchased the 2281 becuase I did not want to permanently alter the Jazz Strad to add a stop tail in place of the trapeze tail. I figured the quality between the two would be similar, but I was wrong in thinking that way. Most Japanese guitars I've owned from this period (mid 70's to early 80s) were very consistent as far as quality control. That's why I believe the specs were changed on these models. The older model was just built to a much higher standard than the newer one. Even the headstock "peace sign" and Electra logo on the older one had more color and depth in the Mother of Pearl inlay. The later inlays look almost plain white. Very little color change when viewed at angles. It's not the same material at all.

If anyone else owns both a newer and a later version of the 335 knock offs please chime in with the differences as you see them. Right now I wish I hadn't sold the Jazz Strad and just went ahead and modified it. I was going to pull the auction when I got home the night it sold. I should've known better... a bird in the hand and all that

Here's a new twist, check this auction: 160188310667 This auction is for a Greco SA 700. There are 61 large high res pics and an original Japanese ad for this model. It's a Jazz Strad/Elvin Bishop/Ibanez 355/etc... in a walnut brown finish. The pups appear to be proprietary to Greco but the stop tail, switch, pup rings, and Greco badged tuners, are all identical to SLMs/Ibanez from the same era. This Greco's a '79. Either Fuji Gen or Hoshino? Uncle Matt doesn't appear to be represented herein the hollow body department. Maybe Uncle Matt's claim was to solid bodies and SLM was purchasing from different manufacturers for different models. The construction, binding, hardware and faded three piece brown neck finish are exact duplicates of the SLM models. The knobs look to be replacement but the serialization is also the exact same type. From what research I've done this is Fuji Gen serialization type. My bet is they were all produced by Fuji Gen for everyone company that was buying buying hollow bodies. What do you think?

double post...dooohhhhh!

Fujigen and Matsumoku both made guitars for distributor Hoshino. And I think both used the 'Ibanez-style' serial numbers in 76 and 77- a month letter and then two digits of year.

But I bet you're right. Japanese Greco was made by Fujigen. My guess is whomever was doing a really nice version of a model, they'd brand them all different brands.

I believe hollow body here on ebay to be the same make as my SLM 2281 but I'm not sure about all '77s using the letter/number serialization. I had a Les Paul copy Aria Pro II from '77 and it used a straight numerical serial number. The number was in the YXXXXX Y (year) XXXXX (production number) format. I'm thinking it was a "Japan" only model as the truss rod cover said "Standard" and used two screws (like Gibson) rather than three, had the open book headstock, double ring Kluson style (probably Gotoh) tuners, wide binding in the cutaway, bound fret ends and two Dimarzio humbuckers.

My Greco Les Paul copy from the same year used the Fuji Gen style MYYXXXXX M(month) YY (year) XXXXX production number serilization. The hardware except for pick ups (Greco) and tuners (Greco labeled sealed type) was the same. Same two screw truss rod cover, Made in Japan bridge and tailpiece, pickup rings, switch and jackplate. The difference between the two was in construction. The Greco was a solid one piece body w/maple slab top and long tenon w/out a tenon screw. The Aria II was a two piece pancake body with a long tenon and a screw in the tenon to body connection. The pickup and control routing was also slightly different between the two. I believe the Aria to be from Matsumoku and the Greco from Fuji Gen. The Greco was a "K77" meaning November of '77 and the Aria was a 70XXXX which I deduced to be a '77.

Both were good guitars but the Greco had a slight edge in finish appointments like binding, fret ends and inlays. The clear coat on the Greco also appeared thinner than on the Aria II. The differences could be due to where each guitar fell in the model range. The strangeness as it applies to the Jazz Strad/2281 differences is that they are reversed. The 2281 is a late '77 (J77) and has a thinner more easily scratched finish than the open book Jazz Strad. But the 2281 also has less quality control on the details like binding and fretwork. The 2281 uses Fuji Gen serialization and the Jazz Strad had no serialization. I don't know why (but there very well could be good reasons) one manufacturer would use another manufacturers markings. Logically they'd keep their markings to themselves for warranty claims or repairs. Unless there are some other markings I'm missing that would differentiate between the two which I haven't found.

Right. the 'Ibanez-style' numbers were actually 'Hoshino style'. The two distributors were Hoshino and Arai, whose own house brand was Aria Pro.

Matsumoku made guitars for both, and followed each's own numbering system depending who the guitar was going to. Fujigen sold all their guitars through Hoshino, so all Fujigen guitars are numbered Hoshino style.

Grecos were mostly made by Fujigen. It has been said that early Grecos were made by MAtsumoku, and it's possible- but there is also possible confusion with the early Greco/Goya brand which came from Arai and possibly had cmponents at least from MAtsumoku- still a mystery though. By mid-70's I think it's safe to say Grecos were made by Fujigen, distributed by Hoshino.

Interesting to compare the hardware. Especially when it comes to copies of gibson, kluson, etc parts- different factories would order tuners and bridges from the same subcontractors.

I would like to see close comparison pics, because it sounds very much like the difference between the two groups of LP's as well, sounds like it may be very much the same thing.

Thanks for the added information and clarification. I think I've got the Hoshino/Arai as distributors thing down now. That helped. I assumed that the manufacturers (Fuji Gen and Matsumoku) probably used the same hardware vendors over the years as the hardware seems to be identical on many models. I have some very nice parts I've collected over the years like a wireless Made in Japan ABR 1 bridge that's of very high quality. I mostly look to the hardware to help determine a guitars place in the model line. I've found the nicer ABRs on upscale LP copies and and Nashville Tun-o-matics with the larger stud type mounting on lower end models.

The difference in construction is usually what I look at to try and determine a specific manufacturer. I brought up hardware in regard to the 335 style because it is nearly all the same save for the trapeze versus stop tail. That would tend to make me believe that they were all at/near the same price point in the model range. What has got me thinking they were all produced by one company is the internally and externally visible construction methods used. Every 335 copy I've seen appears to be built the same. That doesn't hold true for he LP copies I've seen. Even when both models are from the upper end of the model range.

There's a MPC 335 copy on ebay now listed by a guitar store in Dayton. I'm a little too traditional as a guitarist to consider it for personal use but I'm going to go up and check it out in hand to see if there's any noticeable build differences between it and the non-MPC 335 clones I have/had other than the obvious differences for modules.

i think you will find considerable differences between the X810 and the eb, and i suspect the jazz strad you speed of... i have an eb and two x810s and the eb seems by far to be a more superbly crafted instrument... much like the way you describe the difference between your eb and the jazz strad... the necks on my x810s are also much narrower than on my eb... i would be of a mind to say that the 810s and eb's at least are from different manufacturers (especially as the 810s adhere to the sticker type rather than the branded type serial number.... i will be interested to hear what you have to say after you check out the 810 at the shop

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Live Better Electra-ly
http://www.therathole.org/leia/visitors_axes/leia/leia.html

I checked the 810 today and there are many inconsistencies as compared to the Jazz Strad and EB. It also has some similarities. The whole manufacturer issue is no clearer now...

The binding on the X810 is not the same as the tortoise binding on the Jazz Strad, the material appears different. Lighter brown with more yellow splecks and less of the red tint that the Jazz Strad had. But the quality/workmanship of the binding on the X810 is top notch. It's much nicer than the job that was done on my current EB. The tortoise material may just hide the seams better. The X810, like my Jazz Strad, has no visible demarcation where the binding was seamed. The nut on the X810 is brass and fits much better than the EB. Upon closer inspection of my EB I'm thinking someone might have either replaced or did an amateur reset of the nut on my EB.

The tree of life on the X810 is not the same design found on my EB. There is actually more inlay material on the X810. The quality between the two is a wash. They both show glue edges of almost 3/32" on the "flowers" and "leaves". Like my EB the manufacturer seemed to cut fairly nice lines for the "vines" with very little glue/filler showing on the vines. The "flowers" and "leaves" however are very comparable. All these inlays appear to be quickly done. That is, it looks as if they cut the fret board ahead of time and then added the inlays. They definitely don't look to be the "fitted" type where there is very little gap around the inlays. These luthiers definitely were not opposed to using gobs of filler material and it shows!

The neck width is the same as my current EB and my old Jazz Strad (narrow 1.5" string spread from the low E to high E at the nut). Construction internally and neck construction also appears to be the same. Same solid center block topped with an arched maple cap to conform to the top, same steel braided wiring for the pots, same knobs (but different location on the X810), same tuners and hardware. The X810 was heavier than my EB though. With two effects modules aboard it was in log territory for sure. At least 10+ pounds. The headstock "peace sign" and Electra inlay are like the EB. They are not the same material that gave off a lot of color change like the Jazz Strad did.

No headstock/stamped serial number, just the foil sticker. It's in fairly good shape overall. The finish on the rear is worn thin and it appears to be the same type of thinner/softer finish used on my EB that tends to show scratches and dings more readily. It's not the heavier clear used on my early Jazz Strad. Acoustically this guitar had nothing going on whatsoever. The Jazz Strad still rules in this department. My EB is a distant second to the Jazz Strad and the X810 isn't even in the game acoustically. Pretty dead. This is kind of strange as I've always heard it said that a thick finish detracts from acoustic tone. The Jazz Strad was much lighter than my EB so I'm thinking the wood choice is far more important to tone than the finish.

I didn't plug it in because I'm not in the market and didn't want to bother anyone for a cord and amp so I can't speak to any issues with the electronics. Had I been in the market I'd have brought my Champ with me to test it. The Champ gives me a baseline to go by for tonal comparisons.

As for my personal reaction to the X810 I wasn't very impressed with this particular guitar. I tend to be that way though if I can't get a decent sound unplugged. I'm probably missing the whole point of the effects modules... Visually, the inlays are "busy" with too many flowers and leaves that are not not cleanly executed. The greater abundance of inlay on the X810 just draws more attention to the poor quality of work. It was also missing a knob/switch. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think there should be a six way vari-tone type knob on the black washer.

Please don't beat me up for my observations! I have to say up front I'm personally not fond of the MPC module models. I have a few select pedals (Brown Tone Hoochie-Mama, Ibanez TS 9, Tech 21 Comptortion, DOD 680 Delay, T Rex Beta-Vibe and T Rex Tremster ) that I use exclusively. Aside from the O/Ds and delay the others only get used sparingly. That said, I'm definitely not a heavy effects user. Generally I'm more of a guitar straight into the amp kinda' guy with added O/D for solos or crunchy rhythm.

It'll be interesting to see what this X810 brings on auction. A very nice Greco SA 700 335 clone from '79 just went unbid at $849 and that one appeared to be really clean. I can't promise anything but I'm going to try and get some good pics of the EB tomorrow to post.

Here's a few shots of the Jazz Strad that I recently sold. It definitely was of a higher a quality than my newer EB.

The headstock showing "color" in the MOP inlay...




The front showing the fret board inlays. These inlays were excellently executed by any standards. Dare I say the work was of a higher quality than my '05 Gibson '57 Reisue Goldtop....



Last one for tonight is a full frontal. Jeez, I shouldn't have sold it...

there is a 76 jazz strad on e-boink right now that isn't attracting very much interest...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ELECTRA-LAWSUIT-GIB ... dZViewItem

if the price is right, maybe it is time to consider another

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Live Better Electra-ly
http://www.therathole.org/leia/visitors_axes/leia/leia.html